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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.23 02:00:00 -
[1]
Complete and utter crap- you are punishing npc corp members for playing in a way that you doesnt suit you.
Yes they are able to stay in an npc corp- if they pay taxes others dont have to...
Complete waste of time- will only lead to thousands of one man corps, and corp hopping to avoid war deks. Good luck trying to stop that consequence.
Ill end this by arguing against your rational....
* It seems like an unrealistic scenario that the empires in EVE provide infrastructure, security and a host of other financially demanding services at no cost. I sometimes read people complaining about how EVEs physics are unrealistic, but on the realism scale, that still pales compared to a government that refuses to tax its citizens.
So now the services found in empire (ie highsec) are completely free for all corps with the exception of npc corps?
* NPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation. Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations.
War deks will be completely avoided by forming one man corps and corp hopping- good luck regulating that one without severely gimping gameplay. If a player corp wants to complete with an npc corp perhaps they should offer INCENTIVES to join their corp? Something other then treating them like slaves and ripping them off? May come as a surprise to you but the vast majority of null sec corps dont have open recruitment at all.
* We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to ôdestroyö NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player.
Your not destroying npc corps tbh. Your changes are a joke and easy to get around. What irritates me is the often used word "sandbox". Perhaps in the future you can use "Eve is a sandbox unless you play in a way we disagree with".
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.23 08:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 23/09/2009 08:13:29
 Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 23/09/2009 07:48:08
11% tax is too low, increase to minimum 25% for old players.
And other thing. Change the rules.
1-3 months players just pay 0% tax.
3-6 months players just pay 11% tax.
6-12 months players just pay 25% tax.
Over 12 months players just pay 50% tax.
This would be change the "i'm in a noobcorp always for no wardec".
Are you drunk, high, or just stupid? How do you think this will change anything?
Seriously the next person who likes the idea of discriminating against npc corps actually give a coherent reason.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:14:00 -
[3]
Since only npc members pay empire taxes i think only npc members should receive concord protection.
It doesnt seem fair to me that other cpts get this service for free.
Also- creating and switching your one man corp is not an exploit- even if it becomes one it will never be able to be enforced. There will literally be thousands of petitions (per day) crying about the "undekable one man corp" soon- good luck with that.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:43:00 -
[4]
Instead of penalties to those without a corp- how about some incentives for player corps to recruit?
You would be hard pressed to find a null corp that open recruits. It doesnt happen.
Renters in null may recruit- but members of a renter corp often=slaves.
If you want player corps to recruit- especially if you want them to open recruit low sp players- Then give them the reason to do so.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.24 06:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arura Anders
may advice is Tax all income in NPC corps. and Allow PC corps to chose what they tax and do not tax and at what rate they want to. this will allow PC corps the advantage of not taxing contracts and market sales. while NPC crops take form every deposit into a players wallet. After all they are mega corps and we all know how greedy they can be in real life. But allow players to chose the NPC corp the want as you could set them up slightly differently if you wanted. It would also provide them the ability to still make a choice in the game and that will inevitably have an effect on your sandbox.
I like the general idea you had about letting eve be a sandbox but i think your missing the point when it comes to taxes. At the moment only mission rewards of isk and bounties are taxed- so player corp controls are a bit hypothetical. What we want are more incentives to join player corps- and im not sure extra tax options are the solution here.
Another thing most ppl have missed- Player corp taxes dont "poof". Ideally you are getting something for your taxes, prolly reduced or zero costs for ammo and ships perhaps. Maybe even a ship replacement program.
And before you say- "but players in npc corps get to enjoy the benefits of hisec" let me tell you- so do the majority of player corps. Only now npc corps are targeted to pay for the "privilege" every one else gets for free.
Now i ask mission runners in player corps- if you were given no benefits would you stay in your corp with a 11% tax?
Unless your stupid the answer is no- you wouldnt. Who would choose to make 11% less when he could avoid it.
And dont kid yourself- it will be avoided. I predict thousands of 1 man corps soon. Even if you have some delusion of it being against game rules to switch corps to avoid a war dek- It will happen repeatedly. Mission runners in npc corps will just start 3 player corps for each account they have. And bounce between them when wardeked.
The problem was ccp wanted to encourage ppl to join player corps. But theyve gone about it the wrong way. Instead of adding usable content (among other needed changes) they went with the 5 min fix- Tax the npc corp memebers. Good job, wont work- hack fixes rarely do.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.25 05:09:00 -
[6]
I honestly dont care what they intend. I play eve because its a game- its not my job. I want no part in null corps. And a player corp in high sec- well they are carebears with another goal really. Many ppl do not play eve just to grief others. Some ppl play eve for the pve content only. Take that away and see if retention suffers. If i, or others, want to avoid war deks- then we will. Cpts in player corps do the same thing everyday. Tell me again "only" npc corps have wardek immunity- the idea is ridiculous.
I am not against the tax because it is a huge amount. I am against the tax because it is levied against a play style. It will be 11% harder for npc mission runners to accumulate the funds for plexes, for ships, and for mods.
Im absolutely positive a good number of npc mission runners will form 1 man corps. I am just as positive that if you were in a player corp and they charged a 11% tax with no benifits- you would leave it too.
Stop pretending npc corps have benefits you in player corps dont. The immunity npc corps have can be duplicated by corp hopping. Player corps also enjoy the protections of concord- they just dont pay for it.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
I said the best solution if 6 months character must to leave NPC corp, that's better than all other ideas.
Who reach 6 months active time in game, maybe need move to FW corp with this slogen "The empire/republic etc need you" If the player dont wanna fight in FW, must move to player corp. (This is just an alternate idea, will be into other gatherer corp too)
The weaker solution, tax changes for old players:
1-3 months players just pay 0% tax.
3-6 months players just pay 11% tax.
6-12 months players just pay 25% tax.
Over 12 months players just pay 50% tax.
(Over 24 months players just pay 75% tax.)
And other thing need to change, revision the 1 man corp evase from wardec. When someone evade 5th times from wardec with create other corp use 1 week ban, when he repeat this exploit use permaban.
Simple like 1x1.
I LOVE your idea- we go from ccp simply discriminating against a play style to your suggestion of faction warfare- which would make someone KOS. Now instead of a small part of eve being walled off from a player- we get to exclude ppl from 1/4 of empire space.
Truly well thought out- bravo!
And btw- its not an exploit to leave a corp to avoid a war dek- and it never will be. No company in the world is going to be stupid enough to turn down money- and carebears pay a monthly fee just like pvp'ers.
But yes keep up the illusion that somehow you will get to grief ppl who have no choice. We will continue to avoid your war deks- have fun paying them for nothing. We will wave to you from our other one man corp- feel free to war dek that one too.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.28 21:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Drealore
Adapt or Die! Thats the EVE slogan. Countless nerfs and changes have been gotten through by that simple slogan. Now I have played eve for years. I have been the "carebear", and now I PVP. Simgle thing is yes Eve is a sandbox. But if you look at most of the times thats been said its nearly alwayse been about Null sec. But go to your local sandbox and take a look 90% of the time there are parents watching it. To all of those who are calling raceism "mission runners" or what ever you want to call it, its realy not. Npc corps were never meant to host Players for years on end. CCP hopes this tax will entice some ppl to move out of NPC corps witch is fine by me. I will stay there even with 11% less income. Now either quit your crying or do like your threat says and /emoragequit. So you can go cry on another forum and not bother our busy devs. /Go ahead and flame on I dun care
Quoted because its a perfect example of someone who has completely missed the point.
We are not upset at the idea of a tax- we are upset the tax is specifically directed towards a style of play. Theres no other way to interpret it- ppl in npc corps are playing eve wrong and this is ccp's attempt to force them into player corps.
now aside from that- i disagree with the tax because...
1/it does nothing to entice players into player corps
2/it does nothing to fix war deks
3/it encourages 1 man corps- which lets be honest are as safe as npc corps but w/o the corp chat
4/it discourages a style of play- the independent loner
5/it adds absolutely nothing to the game- its like heres the tax all problems are FIXED- "wait what about....?" SHUDDUP- FIXED TAX FIXED IT
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.29 04:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vaermina Valessara
1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.
1- Yes it was implied there would be more "disincentive" to stay in an npc corp. Tbh i dont see any actual "incentives" to join player corps incoming. Just keep upping the punishment till all npc corp members create their own 1 man corp. Id love to be proven wrong here.
2- It doesnt say it was intended to fix it but the wardek situation is one of the reasons ppl stay in npc corps...Im going on the theory that if they truly want ppl out of npc corps they will fix the broken aspects that keep them there.
3/4- Not really. The "solo cpt" style of play is often found in npc corps- its nice to have hundreds of ppl to chat with. Just because you dont want to rely on them doesnt mean you dont like the conversation. A 1 man corp will keep the "solo" aspect- but it loses the npc conversation aspect. And yes i know- make a player channel. This however doesnt allow for the huge numbers of random ppl to enter and exit- which is one of the great parts of an npc chat.
5- What were still pretending cpts in player corps arent immune from war deks if they want to be? Were just going to ignore the fact that if they wish they can corp hop and always be in a player corp- yet be immune to war deks? Were also ignoring the fact that all players enjoy concord protection. So in the end npc corps have no "special mechanic" that "only" lets them avoid war deks. It just takes 2 seconds longer to avoid them if your in a player corp.
I would like to believe theres an "actual" fix incoming. But i see this as "lets throw griefer whiners a bone and punish npc corps" tactic. Theres no actual goal for this change- it will just shut the griefers up a bit- till they realize how little is changed anyway. Then your going to hear more of the "raise the npc tax"- or my favorite "tax the market for everyone but player corps" idea.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.29 09:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Vaermina Valessara
1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.
blablabla
I ride the short bus and cant understand logic and reasoning
there fixed it for ya
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.28 09:33:00 -
[11]
you can not "auto enroll" ppl into the faction militia because militia activities quickly make you kos with opposing races- and fixing standings takes almost forever.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.29 10:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: maximus sotar
This tax system is flawed, 11% for NPC corp... eve is just gonna see thousands and thousands of 1 man corps made up of their main and alts... who will still dodge tax, and farm missions in empire with no penalty. the only thing is now they can be war dec'ed. empire is still gonna be the same old thing with mission farmers and traders...meh.
I think i have a solution. CCP should ask maximus sotar if everyones corp meets his standards. If the standards arent up to par- 100% tax on that person.
I think this would work much better then just letting ppl play the game how they wish to play.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.29 13:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: maximus sotar
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: maximus sotar
This tax system is flawed, 11% for NPC corp... eve is just gonna see thousands and thousands of 1 man corps made up of their main and alts... who will still dodge tax, and farm missions in empire with no penalty. the only thing is now they can be war dec'ed. empire is still gonna be the same old thing with mission farmers and traders...meh.
I think i have a solution. CCP should ask maximus sotar if everyones corp meets his standards. If the standards arent up to par- 100% tax on that person.
I think this would work much better then just letting ppl play the game how they wish to play.
that's like saying live your life tax free.... no income tax, no GST, etc.. even when u own your own business u pay tax regardless. and even now in 0.0 we have to pay upkeep to hold space... what do u pay in empire? nothing but ammo to run the same missions day in day out? empire is like a 5* hotel.. its got the pool, spa, gym, shops, whatever u want... and its free as it stands....and will continue so until some other in game tax system is introduced. as for the corps meeting my standards...i dont give a ^&*( what u do in game. i chose a corp out of empire so i could be part of something instead of being playing boring missions day in day out, or spamming Jita local with bull****. all i can say is simple things amuse simple minds. have fun in empire!
Analogies comparing eve to real life dont really work tbh...
Im against the npc tax for one reason- it doesnt accomplish anything but take away the npc chat channel. Thats all it does.
The tax can be avoided by simply joining a one man corp. If you wardek that corp they will just make another. The tax is a choice- 11% of your bounties and mission rewards for using npc corp chat or form a one man corp.
Obviously most are going to go the one man corp route. And so what? It is a game- let them play how they want. Prolly over 80% of eve players are hisec only players- Null players prolly account for bit over 10% of total population. Somewhere along the line the more self rightous null players decided they were somehow important- and the others were "playing the game wrong".
My previous comment (quoted above) was mainly because you seem to disagree with the change because it doesnt go far enough. (in reality the change does nothing see above)
But you never did put your version of a "fix"- would be interesting to see how you would make over 80% of eve play the game how you think it should be played.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.12.02 11:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gavin McStine
Edited by: Gavin McStine on 02/12/2009 09:19:58
"òNPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation.
I dont want to be in a player corp- a lot of ppl dont. Ppl have a variety of reasons, one of them being a player corp requires a high level of activity.
Originally by: Gavin McStine
Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations."
Advantages? hardly- in an npc corp i am not wardekable. In a player corp- i can leave the corp at will. My corp can join an alliance and then immediately leave. Anyone who wants to be undekable- is. It has nothing to do with being in an npc corp.
Now what about the disadvantages of being in an npc corp? Like the not being able to anchor pos'es among other things.
Originally by: Gavin McStine
So then why are player corps getting taxed too. 50.0% tax levied by "corp name" on pirate bounty prizes of 100,000.00 isk or more. Were being payed the bounty because concord cant afford to do it them selfs. You dont hire a hitman to do a job then tax him afterwords.
Thats is a glitch already in the known issues thread. It will be fixed shortly im sure.
Originally by: Gavin McStine
Kind make this point mute. If were paying taxes on bounty then why are corps being charged every month for offices? what about sales tax. Repair Fees. Oh and what if your killing pirates in 0.0 you know where concord is none existant?
I dont even know what your point here is. Repair fees, office rentals and the like- do not pay for concord. It is a service you use that you pay for. Dont pretend npc corps are special- we pay repair bills too.
Originally by: Gavin McStine
Way to **** that one up.
Heres an idea how about all the players tax CCP 1$ for every months subcription?
Way to insult the company. Ive said it before and ill say it again- if i ran ccp i would permaban any player acting in such a disrespectful manner.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.01.19 19:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Droog 1
When will we know if CCP think this was a success or not?
I just want to know how many one man corps existed before and after the change.
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